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Bea Arthur passes away at 86.

Awww, no, that's such a shame.

She was a very funny lady.

R.I.P, Bea. [rose]

I've been so sad since I heard.

I was just beginnnig to watch the last season of the Golden Girls when I got the news.

Sad.

[rose]

Sam_Spade wrote:Awww, no, that's such a shame.

If I may hijack the post for a moment - Saying that it’s a shame denotes that there was some tragedy involved here. Though I don't wish death on anyone, or be callus enough to belittle someone's feelings, life is a terminal disease, and there is no cure. For Bea Arthur, she had a full life. I have no idea on her personal side; just from the characters she played (Maude and Dorothy). Those 2 ladies weren't who Bea was, just parts of the sum of the whole.

To live one's life doing something one loves to do, there is no reason for pity. If she was a child, who didn't have a chance at life, or was struck down because of catastrophe, then I would say it is a shame. However, I think she is someone to be celebrated, not pitied, and say, "Thank you for bringing some joy into my life, Bea. You've done a good job, and may God rest your soul."

Now, to you, Sam - this is not meant as admonishment to your comment nor to dilute any grief you may or may not have, but rather to look at a person who has lived a full life, and recognize the benefit she has given us.

Techboy wrote:

Sam_Spade wrote:Awww, no, that's such a shame.

Now, to you, Sam - this is not meant as admonishment to your comment nor to dilute any grief you may or may not have, but rather to look at a person who has lived a full life, and recognize the benefit she has given us.

Hmmm. But where does one draw the line? How is it decided whether someone has lived a "full life"? What are the criteria? Maybe she felt she had more to give?

If someone who entertained and given us joy has passed away, we can grieve but also celebrate their lives, surely?

[quote="Lucretia]Hmmm. But where does one draw the line? How is it decided whether someone has lived a "full life"? What are the criteria? Maybe she felt she had more to give?

If someone who entertained and given us joy has passed away, we can grieve but also celebrate their lives, surely?[/quote]

What I was trying to point out is that there was nothing shameful, worthless, or tragic about her death. True we will never know if she had any more to give or not - that isn't the point. The point is she did not have a wasted life, and deserves our celebration instead of pitty. I think a more fitting statement would have been "Rest In Peace", "May God rest your soul", or something along those lines.

Shame, pitty, grief are all for the living. Recognizing that Sam_Spade wasn't posting out of spite, or expressing anything other than - what, remorse maybe - I didn't want to come off as attacking him or trivializing what he may have felt. So, I tried to conrast situations where death is shameful. Seeing as I don't know Bea Arthur personally, nor can I climb into her head and have a definative answer is she felt she had completed what she wanted to do, I can only assume that she had a good life. I base that on the fact that there aren't stories in the tabloids or mainstream press about her had success in her carrer, didn't have health problems (again as far as I know), and lived to past age expectancy. So, as far as drawing a line and saying she had a full life, there you go, that's were I draw the line.

-Chris
aka techboy

P.S. Heath Ledger's death was a shame. River Pheonix's death was a shame. My uncle's death (brain cancer) was a shame. My maternal grandmother's death was not a shame (I hated seeing her in hospice, and my mom was a wreck, but there was no shame in the twilight of her life).

Edited: added the PS -Techboy

Techboy wrote:What I was trying to point out is that there was nothing shameful, worthless, or tragic about her death.

I find your interpretation of "a shame" to be oddly literal. Surely you're aware of its colloquial usage meaning "an unfortunate occurrence", aren't you?

And as to whether we should be celebrating her life instead of grieving her death - or feeling shame or whatever else about it - as you point out, these emotions are for the living. I say we should feel and respond however we like.

JupiterAmy wrote:I find your interpretation of "a shame" to be oddly literal. Surely you're aware of its colloquial usage meaning "an unfortunate occurrence", aren't you?

I don't know why you would find that odd, but you are correct in that I was interpreting it literally. You're alternate usage makes sense to me, and will conceed that in this case, "shame" is proper.

JupiterAmy wrote:And as to whether we should be celebrating her life instead of grieving her death - or feeling shame or whatever else about it - as you point out, these emotions are for the living. I say we should feel and respond however we like.

This is why I was being so careful in what I was putting in the post. I did not want to invalidate any feelings someone had about her death. I was arguing symantics more than what people should or shouldn't do. Each person goes through a greiving process differently. I was trying to show whay I thought this was not a tragedy.